MFM's dilemmas, futures and possible solutions - threads del

[antyong (retired)]

Before I start my reply, please here my plea...

When I started MFM, I was content to have members and the public downloading our map and then heading towards MSM for chats and discussions. It turned out to my pleasant surprise that MFM gradually becomes the preferred forum for discussions. I would like to think that this is due to the lighter and friendlier atmosphere here.

Perhaps you will remember that around this time last year, when Garmin announced the release of Garmin-MSM map,
many questions were asked of the MSM admin and mods. They responded, to the disgust of many, by deleting members' posts. I believe that this is one of the key turning point that made people turned to MFM.

Please do not make MFM into MSM. We already have one MSM. We don't need another. Moderators are given deletion rights to delete advertisements and spam postings, not members' debates.

The PDF I have received contains only 25 posts. Perhaps it is not a bad thing for heated words that follow need not to be remembered. As I go through the debate, what strikes me as funny is that both sides have their valid points and these points are already part of my thinking. I just don't understand how it became a big controversy for you guys


p.s Btw, next time if you guys have something so interesting to discuss, do it when I am around lah

[antyong (retired)]

If u are a regular visitor, soon u will realise the great work done by MFM. unfortunately, that is as far as it can get. A good map. without a navi software partner like garmin, igo, papa go etc the Map is totally useless. With the recent events, it is clear with a software partners does not necessary bring the right results. Papa go is a clear case
where 1 vendor actually monopoly the map for its papa go software. it applies to other software too.
Others softwares vendors are either not interested or protective of their propriety compiler. We can't blame them, after all, compiler is indeed top secret technology. Worse, they have little to gain in revenue. Maps are a renewal revenue!!. Nice.
There are others like Garmin now are creating new barriers so that free MFM map cannot be generated with
more features. They may render the existing compilers useless by changing the structure completely. Once
that is done. MFM is back to square one. cool Maps with no users.

Thank you for identifying MFM's potential threat. I have always been worried about it. That's why the Papago project was important to us. The outcome may not be the most ideal. But it is far from a total failure. The most positive step forward is actually to engage more navigation software companies in similar projects. Then our eggs will not be in one or two baskets.

Even in the event that Garmin make MFM map unusable, plenty of members are still using older Garmin devices and software. When it is time for them to upgrade, it is up to them to choose map over software or the other way round.

With the increase demand and awareness of GPS, other commercial map maker is hot on the trails of updating their maps. rumours has it that TA singapore is busy scouting malaysia with a fleet of mapping SUVs as we speak. Their latest beta version seem to be comparable with MFM if not better, afterall, they have the resources to do it day and night if there is a demand. This will be a direct threat to MFM. ie. MFM map with no software to run on!! Software provider can generate good revenue from maps. MFM can never be a good partner. what about Papa go? it is a partner of convenience. (like cSL and OTK in MCA Then for how long?

"Their latest beta version seem to be comparable with MFM if not better" - this analysis seems the be too simplistic without the evaluation of a larger test group. Don't forget that TA map has to be much more better than MFM to justify their price tag. And when that day finally comes, does MFM "gulung tikar"?
Unlikely, for going out there tracking or mapping in front of our PC is our hobby. MFM can still serve a meaningful role that is to keep other map data supplier on their toes and make sure they do not slack. This role will still benefit our members and the general public. Furthermore, the fact s also that the community map is always with the community and we don't raise price
Btw, a partnership between a non-profit entity with a profit-seeking entity if it is not a partnership of convenience then what do you think it should be?

Moving forward, the only long term solutions to develop its very own navigation software. Yes, to fast track
the development, MFM can raise funds from users or its member and tap into the power of open source, it can
be done.
MFM can review its model and may be charging a small fees like RM20.00 per copy downloaded etc. or free,
whatever.
With this new model: MFM control its own destiny and its future can be guaranteed.

Having our own navigation software will be my biggest dream come true. But it is a dream, at least for now. Even if your idea is feasible, it lacked implementation details seriously.
- Projection of income? How many RM20 can we earn? Have you checked how many will pay? As far as I am concern, it is a figure plucked from the sky
- Budget projection for software development? How much is needed?
- Time needed?
- Technology needed?
- Project management?
- Future upgrades?

If MFM is soon losing out to "competitors" even in the area where our core strength is, how do you expect our own software to compete against the competition? Just take a look at Mapking's difficulty in bringing their Mapking Virtual to market acceptance.

Of course, it will be a completely different story if you are an open source software developer and has the necessary knowledge to develop a decent navigation software. We can talk business straight away

Argh....
Sooner or later, 4 sure the map company will catch up if there is a market. I doubt anyone wanna to bet on
that.
They can be europe No.1. malaysia or singapore should be peanut. it may not be a perfect one like MFM, but one which is usable will be equally good.
I wouldnt be surprise if they started locking out MFM or any others free maps once they have a viable map. just a matter not how, but when? They are here for business ma...i would that done that too myself.
The question is, will MFM survive? The market is evolving quickly. MFM can be in a denies mode. no lah no lah...etc etc. it is a great success story but may have a tragic end. If you are a great supporter of Palm pilot...the leader of all leaders in PDA, should learn it that i might be going into receivership in the next few weeks.

I think bro shark has missed the forest for the tree. MFM is definitely not competing with other for maps solutions. But others try to stop MFM from generating free maps. Free maps are bad for business. for now if Garmin and papago did a major upgrade with their compilers and providing their own maps. Then how? I concurred with sharui that doing nothings or remain a status quo is not an options. I see it negatively without owning a navigation software. Make if Free software and maps is secondary.

I am not in denial, bro. I have a lot of hopes and thoughts. But I know better the strengths and limitations of this community too. If we can go forward or if someone can help us move forward, I would be the very happy indeed

My conclusion is that our current and future situation is not as dire as predicted by our two bros. However, being able to develop our own navigation software is indeed the best way forward. But we still need a lot of studies, fact findings and budgeting before even starting. In this area, I need external help

[antyong (retired)]

The competition won’t come from US150 map providers. The real competitors (if you classify them as so), will come other free maps services. Think of Google and Nokia. Their maps are currently not comprehensive. But they do have great exposure. Ask anyone on the street and most likely they will at least heard of these two maps. Ask them about mfm. More ofhen than not, you'll get a blank face. In fact, most of them won’t even know “Garmin’ or ‘Papago’ for that matter. To use mfm maps, one need to fork out at least RM500 for the pnd device. You pay next to nothing to use Google or Nokia maps. Everyone has a mobile phone. It’s just a matter of time before the GPS functionality trickles down to lower prices units (sub RM500). Purists here may argue on the relative merits of dedicated navigation devices. But the world out there couldn’t care less about these purists.

An then, then comes another free maps services communities. Hot on mfm tail is of course MSM. But don’t discount OSM or relatively new entrant Waze. MSM is well known here, so there is no need to talk about them. OSM allows virtually anything you want to map, provided it’s verifiable and does not infringe on anyone’s privacy. Mfm imposes some restrictions on what can be put on the maps. This may put off some mappers. In OSM, people are mapping side walks, bike trails, wheelchair capable routes and so on. Some even go as far as mapping street lamp post (so they can notify authority whenever the bulbs are blown). Others mapped where the trash bin are located in their house compound to aid the trash man/truck to the trash.
Waze offers interesting concept of creating map based on live traffic condition. The more people use the map, the better it will get. The system is set up such that each user will automatically tell the Waze server their actual driving speed. Some will voluntarily tell the server (via sms etc) the actual road condition (rains, accidents, road closure). This is all one in real time. If properly implemented – this is a great boost to reduce traffic jams.

The reason why I’m telling all this is to let mfmers knows what’s is going on in mapping world out there. So, If mfm'ers think that your position as top map provider in Malaysia / Singapore is unassailable – you better think again!

Bingo! I am also in the opinion that GM will be our biggest competitors. I have pointed the need for us to work hard to make sure MFM is ahead. That is not much different from shark's assertion that we could progress only by working.

It is not that I am nothing about it. Don't forget that we created over 2000 JV pictures within a short time thanks mostly to the hard work of less than 5 members! Recently, I had asked members to contribute house numbers and expended our POI categories. You take a look at the response for our house number contribution and you will notice that response isn't exactly great. How many Lane Assist contributions have we received?

We have to remember that this community consists of volunteers. It is more about having fun than worrying about being number 1. In most case, I have to do the things I wish for myself or get a small group of members to help me. Hence, shark is correct that merely thinking ahead will not get us anywhere. We need to think, talk and most importantly, WORK Because we lack the technologies that others have, we have to work even harder!

[antyong (retired)]

Well said and discussed.... free stuff don't Die! How true.
Please allow my 2 sens of thought.... How about helping higher Educational Institution to make navigational software and maps for free. This will ensure a new pool of mapping Geeks to continue the good works of MfM.
My first encounter with maps is from GIS (Geographical Information Systems) created by Dr. Lee Lik Meng - Universiti Sains Malaysia. Read about it HERE.
We are proud of our work as a Free Maps Provider... There's no need to fight for any position as a hobbyist site.... cheers!

Precisely my thought. A more feasible model for making our own navigation software is through education institute or commercial companies financed by a grant. But we need people to lead us towards this path. Again, some external help is needed.

[antyong (retired)]

I have finished my replies. Now it is time to continue discussion. This is actually a very interesting topic. Please do not spoil it by unnecessary aggression. Err...1MFM?

[sharkteef]

This topic didnt last 5 pages as opposed to what the keyboard warrior typed in his 1st post. The keyboard warrior loves lies.

This topic lasted only a few pages before someone came in with "His" dilemma and NOT MFM's dilemma. From then it was already off topic. and bear in mind, i will delete this when deemed inappropriate. Keyboard warriors ..... lol .

[antyong (retired)]

Keyboard warriors don't exist here.

Lowyat.net is -----> way


I believe we can have some meaningful discussions

[sharkteef]

they didnt exist until now. discovery has been made. +1

[moeyhc]

I have called for restrain in the old post and ask not to delete/lock the post for the reason known as freedom of expression. The Title of the post is so wide that we can argue till the cow comes home about the Off Topic reason given.

Do we have a problem? No, not now... we are still happy and even planning to welcome the MfM party van next weekend. Will tomorrow be the same?... ha haa.. I'm no fortune teller. But one thing for sure, I'll enjoy it while I can.... Warriors?... what is it?.... Cheers and Relax... 1MfM

[SOSweet]

1 MfM boleh !