MFM and OpenStreetMap

[jpatokal]

So, let me throw out another crazy idea...

There's another mapping project out there called OpenStreetMap (OSM), which does pretty much the same stuff as MFM, only they cover the whole world. Here's what 100,000 OSM mappers did last year:





What if MFM joined OpenStreetMap? Let me lay out a few of the positives and negatives here...

Good
- OSM is a much, much bigger community than MFM. This means that they have all sorts of neat technology and web services available, most obviously the OpenStreetMap website itself, which has "Google Maps"-style interface covering the whole world.
- MFM is quite narrowly geared towards turning GPS tracks into car navigation system maps. OSM is a database and entire mapping platform which can be used for a billion different things aside from just navigation.
- OSM is run by the non-profit OpenStreetMap Foundation and is Creative Commons licensed, which means that it will has solid financial backing and will be free forever.
- OSM's current coverage of Malaysia and Singapore, while improving fast, is still much worse than MFM. MFM joining in would be a huge help.

Bad
- OSM is a much, much bigger community than MFM, so MFM would become just a small part of OSM.
- Generating Garmin maps from OSM data is still sort of beta, although it's improving fast.
- The formats used by MFM and OSM are mostly incompatible. Migrating MFM data into OSM would mean be a lot of work, much of it geeky, boring and technical.

Discuss

[antyong (retired)]

Short story is...I tried to contribute a part of our data to OSM. They weren't too interested....too big as you had said. End of story

[SOSweet]

So the marriage of the giant and goliath is over, for now.

[jpatokal]

Short story is...I tried to contribute a part of our data to OSM. They weren't too interested....too big as you had said. End of story

What "they" did you talk to? I think the main problems -- from OSM's point of view -- are that the license has to be sorted out (which adopting Creative Commons should do nicely) and that somebody has to take care of the technical integration.

[imantulen]

Short story is...I tried to contribute a part of our data to OSM. They weren't too interested....too big as you had said. End of story

What "they" did you talk to? I think the main problems -- from OSM's point of view -- are that the license has to be sorted out (which adopting Creative Commons should do nicely) and that somebody has to take care of the technical integration.

I would agree that the contentious issue would be the lack of accreditation status, which is rightfully pointed out by Jpatokal - they do not know where we stand & the potential future liabilities towards themselves by virtue of association with us... hence the cold shoulders....

But is it really neccessary for MFM to join OSM, what do we actually gain - that's the question ? If the pros are greater than the cons, then it's worthwhile.... otherwise status quo would suffice for now.... as MFM is still an infant..... a step at a time....

[nyem]

jpatokal,
I can see that you are updating Singapore map in OSM

jpatokal.png

- The formats used by MFM and OSM are mostly incompatible. Migrating MFM data into OSM would mean be a lot of work, much of it geeky, boring and technical.

OSM and MFM is so incompatible that if they are to be married MFM will have to cut off his d*ck making the marriage no fun to MFM at all. They might be philosophically similar, but the means are different. It is currently not possible for MFM map to be uploaded into OSM as OSM specifically forbids any data derived from non-public domain source. While the roads drawn from tracklogs are OK, the polygons traced from GE are not allowed. It'll take lots of work for MFM to make the data compatible, and the end credit will go to OSM.

But is it really neccessary for MFM to join OSM, what do we actually gain - that's the question ? If the pros are greater than the cons, then it's worthwhile.... otherwise status quo would suffice for now.... as MFM is still an infant..... a step at a time....

It is not necessary for MFM to join OSM, but MFM members can. MFM members are always welcomed to contribute to OSM by uploading their own tracks and drawing roads in OSM. But no one should be uploading MFM map into OSM. MFM and OSM can work together, but they don't have to be married.

[sabre23t]

It is currently not possible for MFM map to be uploaded into OSM as OSM specifically forbids any data derived from non-public domain source. While the roads drawn from tracklogs are OK, the polygons traced from GE are not allowed.

I think this issue of our polygons are traced from GE (subject to Google licensing limitations), instead of traced from Yahoo Images (who have allowed tracing under OSM license) is the cause for silence on OSM part to Antyong's offer. Or they (or steve) could have just overlooked/forgotten about Antyong's offer.

It is not necessary for MFM to join OSM, but MFM members can. MFM members are always welcomed to contribute to OSM by uploading their own tracks and drawing roads in OSM.

Agreed. The main advantage of editing maps on OSM is the simultaneous multiple mappers editing on a single database function on OSM. Also the historical feature of the database, every single object keeps a history of who edits and can be reverted. It's very easy for any mappers to just edit a POI with a misspelling in its name for example.

One way for MFM to make use of OSM, would be to use it to group edit/update sets of POIs. That is everyone update POIs directly on the map. We then regularly export the POIs from OSM to GPX for import into MFM maps. Just a thought.

[jpatokal]

jpatokal,
I can see that you are updating Singapore map in OSM

I'm trying to practice what I preach. Only got my first GPS unit two months ago though

It is currently not possible for MFM map to be uploaded into OSM as OSM specifically forbids any data derived from non-public domain source. While the roads drawn from tracklogs are OK, the polygons traced from GE are not allowed.

This is actually debatable. Polygons based on Yahoo satellite data are definitely OK, but Google has refused to give a "yes" or "no" answer to whether their satellite data is traceable, and the license is not very clear on this either. But the end result that, like you say, OSM is assuming "no" to be on the safe side.

It'll take lots of work for MFM to make the data compatible, and the end credit will go to OSM.

No, the end credit goes to the people who upload the data -- their names stay on in the history files.

It is not necessary for MFM to join OSM, but MFM members can. MFM members are always welcomed to contribute to OSM by uploading their own tracks and drawing roads in OSM. But no one should be uploading MFM map into OSM. MFM and OSM can work together, but they don't have to be married.

Agreed. While roads are the most important thing, uploading tracks and POIs would also be very helpful, and there should be no license concerns. Polygons are a nice extra, but not critical.

[nyem]

No, the end credit goes to the people who upload the data -- their names stay on in the history files.

Bulk importing of MFM map will not preserve the name of the mappers/contributors as they are not documented in MFM map.

While roads are the most important thing, uploading tracks and POIs would also be very helpful, and there should be no license concerns. Polygons are a nice extra, but not critical.

We can learn from the Philippines experience in importing waypoints.ph and rpmap data into OSM. See http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2008-October/000067.html and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Philippines_Data_Import - "Ed Garcia, maintainer of WaypointsDotPH, is adding roads, mostly provincial, using personal GPX traces and those contributed by WaypointsDotPH members."

Getting permission from MFM members to upload their traces to OSM is a good start.

[fauzee]

hei guys..maybe ADMIN can make Vote Corner for all members especially contributor to get permission