Thailand Maps Development

[JasonLee]

I think we better not use Major Highway for anything other than Motorways and Expressways in the Bangkok areas. Only the motorways and expressways are true "Motorway" class (no traffic light at grade level; no u-turns; access only by ramps and exits) like the E-roads in Malaysia.

I am using:
Major Highway for single-digit roads (there is no category for Expressway)
Principal Highway for 2-digit roads.
Other Highway Road for 3-digit roads and
Arterial Road or Collector road for 4-digit roads.
The rest are Residential Roads or Alleys.

Anyway, when you stitch the maps together, you can do a global change to whatever MFM finally decides is the classification as we did not have a guideline to work on but were told by Bro Antyong to just do whatever we are comfortable with.

Uploading progress report No. 2 for Phangnga Province. I fear the file will soon get too large to upload.

[tympg]

I think we better not use Major Highway for anything other than Motorways and Expressways in the Bangkok area. Only the motorways and expressways are true "Motorway" class (no traffic light at grade level; no u-turns; access only by ramps and exits) like the E-roads in Malaysia.

I am using:
Major Highway for single-digit roads (there is no category for Expressway)

Yes I know there is no Expressway class road in GPSMapEdit

What I meant was "Expressways" (as well as "Motorways") in Thailand, as defined here should be classified as Major Highway in our maps. These roads are equivalent to the Malaysian E expressways. Right now, such roads only exist in the Greater Bangkok area, although there are plans to build motorways nationwide.

National Highways (as defined here) including Single Digit Routes are only equivalent the Malaysian Federal Trunk roads (like Route 1) and thus should only be classified as Principal Highways.

My point is, in southern Thailand, there are currently no equivalents to the "motorway-class" roads like we see in the E roads in Malaysia, M motorways in the UK or Interstate highways in the US.

In the future, when the motorways are built out across Thailand, how are we going to classify these motorways when the Major Highway category is already used for National Highways?

Sorry for being pedantic but just feel the need to discuss and set the guidelines from the outset.

[JasonLee]

Yes I know there is no Expressway class road in GPSMapEdit

What I meant was "Expressways" (as well as "Motorways") in Thailand, as defined here should be classified as Major Highway in our maps. These roads are equivalent to the Malaysian E expressways. Right now, such roads only exist in the Greater Bangkok area, although there are plans to build motorways nationwide.

National Highways (as defined here) including Single Digit Routes are only equivalent the Malaysian Federal Trunk roads (like Route 1) and thus should only be classified as Principal Highways.

My point is, in southern Thailand, there are currently no equivalents to the "motorway-class" roads like we see in the E roads in Malaysia, M motorways in the UK or Interstate highways in the US.

In the future, when the motorways are built out across Thailand, how are we going to classify these motorways when the Major Highway category is already used for National Highways?

Sorry for being pedantic but just feel the need to discuss and set the guidelines from the outset.

Dear Bro Tympg,

I appreciate and share your concern that is why from the very outset, I sent a PM to Bro Antyong to ask for standard guidelines. For the benefit of other confused mappers, I shall share the PM I sent to Bro Antyong:

Hi Bro Anthony,

I think it will save you some post-editing work if right from the start you lay down standards for us to follow - like what levels to extend to for different Road Types and which point objects to use to represent what and which to choose when there are several choices for each type.

I like to get started asap but not to do as I like or follow some other standards.

Best regards,

Jason

I agree with Bro Antyong's reply which is self-explanatory, although it did not touch specifically on which Road Types to use for which roads:

Hi Jason,

All mp files from MFM mappers will go through post-processing to standardize level settings, generate road POI and custom POI. Therefore you need not worry about what levels to extend. Set the level that you are most comfortable with.

Our POI and polygon types standard is documented under MFM Map Reference. If you need further clarifications, you can either PM me or post at the Thailand mapping topic.

I personally feel it is not productive (in fact discouraging) since I have already gone some distance to stop now and go back to changing polyline/point/polygon types. We should just let the mappers to continue mapping what they have started and later review when they have time. By all means establish a standard guideline for those who haven't started.

We cannot maintain our mapping momentum and sooner or later will have to slow down when we run out of track logs to follow or when GE blocks the underlay which is happening very often. I will soon reach that point and will then have time to review the map if standard guidelines are established by then.

[duke17]

Jason. Carry on what bro antyong had advised. Go the distance and make it happen

[JasonLee]

Just FYI, many sections of the Highway 4 from Hat Yai to Bangkok have been classified as E4 (even in the Michelin Maps of 2005) and fit the expressway description so it is not just in Bangkok. I think it is a matter of time when all single-digit roads are upgraded to expressways. Even 3-digit roads are being upgraded. Highway 415 for example is now drawn as a single polyline road but even as we speak, it is being upgraded to a dual-carriageway. The section of Highway 4 between Krabi and Thap Put will soon be completely dual-carriageway.

Should we worry about having to change Road Types in our maps when the roads get upgraded? Of course from single to double-polylines what that happens. A farther-sighted guide would be preferred.

My view has always been for the maps to be functional foremost and aesthetic or descriptive secondary. Beautiful maps are not necessarily good maps.

[tympg]

Jason, no worries.

I understand that we are at a very early stage of the Thailand map development. No problem with me that we slowly work the standards through by consensus.

I had just put my (ok, rather forthright) opinions about road classifications. It just bothered me that some single carriageway sections should be classified as Major Highway just because it's part of National Highway 4. Those parts of Hwy 4 that you say are classified as E4, fine, let those sections be Major Highway (and then call them E4, not 4).

And precisely because of map accuracy that I have argued my points i.e., what's on the ground right now should be reflected on the current map, not what some future upgrade is going to turn the road into.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue with this subject until bro antyong brings it up again for proper discussion.

Peace out

[alyem]

Bro,
Can we list out the summary for Thailand road guideline, Just a standard guidelines for us MFM mapper at this poin of time.. So that everyone is using the same guidelines.

[antyong (retired)]

Yes I know there is no Expressway class road in GPSMapEdit

What I meant was "Expressways" (as well as "Motorways") in Thailand, as defined here should be classified as Major Highway in our maps. These roads are equivalent to the Malaysian E expressways. Right now, such roads only exist in the Greater Bangkok area, although there are plans to build motorways nationwide.

National Highways (as defined here) including Single Digit Routes are only equivalent the Malaysian Federal Trunk roads (like Route 1) and thus should only be classified as Principal Highways.

My point is, in southern Thailand, there are currently no equivalents to the "motorway-class" roads like we see in the E roads in Malaysia, M motorways in the UK or Interstate highways in the US.

In the future, when the motorways are built out across Thailand, how are we going to classify these motorways when the Major Highway category is already used for National Highways?

Sorry for being pedantic but just feel the need to discuss and set the guidelines from the outset.

Dear Bro Tympg,

I appreciate and share your concern that is why from the very outset, I sent a PM to Bro Antyong to ask for standard guidelines. For the benefit of other confused mappers, I shall share the PM I sent to Bro Antyong:

Hi Bro Anthony,

I think it will save you some post-editing work if right from the start you lay down standards for us to follow - like what levels to extend to for different Road Types and which point objects to use to represent what and which to choose when there are several choices for each type.

I like to get started asap but not to do as I like or follow some other standards.

Best regards,

Jason

I agree with Bro Antyong's reply which is self-explanatory, although it did not touch specifically on which Road Types to use for which roads:

Hi Jason,

All mp files from MFM mappers will go through post-processing to standardize level settings, generate road POI and custom POI. Therefore you need not worry about what levels to extend. Set the level that you are most comfortable with.

Our POI and polygon types standard is documented under MFM Map Reference. If you need further clarifications, you can either PM me or post at the Thailand mapping topic.

I personally feel it is not productive (in fact discouraging) since I have already gone some distance to stop now and go back to changing polyline/point/polygon types. We should just let the mappers to continue mapping what they have started and later review when they have time. By all means establish a standard guideline for those who haven't started.

We cannot maintain our mapping momentum and sooner or later will have to slow down when we run out of track logs to follow or when GE blocks the underlay which is happening very often. I will soon reach that point and will then have time to review the map if standard guidelines are established by then.

The MFM map reference covers POI and Polygon standards. It does not include guideline for polyline usage. Polyline guideline is here:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=521

I am looking forward to meet you guys in Ipoh for further discussions. I have not been to Thailand before. Need to learn more before setting any standard. I am in the midst of updating the MFM Map Reference but the new standard will only be release in September after our Ipoh meeting and discussion. At the meantime, just enjoy mapping. I will be able to help with polyline type update if necessary.

Bro Jason, other than polyline guideline, what do you find lacking from the Map Reference?

[JasonLee]

The MFM map reference covers POI and Polygon standards. It does not include guideline for polyline usage. Polyline guideline is here:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=521

I am looking forward to meet you guys in Ipoh for further discussions. I have not been to Thailand before. Need to learn more before setting any standard. I am in the midst of updating the MFM Map Reference but the new standard will only be release in September after our Ipoh meeting and discussion. At the meantime, just enjoy mapping. I will be able to help with polyline type update if necessary.

Bro Jason, other than polyline guideline, what do you find lacking from the Map Reference?

Hi Bro Antyong,

For the time-being, I am concentrating on roads/polylines for which I have track logs so I have not yet encountered any other lack from the Map Reference. Will advise as the cases arise.

As for polylines, the Thai roads do not match our Malaysian classifications so the guide needs to be re-written specifically for Thai roads. Bro Tympg's point is that we should map according to what the roads currently are but my view is that we should map according to convention or accepted classifications. As I presume none of us go to Thailand that frequently, there is no way for us to verify what status the roads currently are and by the time we do, it is probably already out of date. We also do not have a large user population from Thailand who can feedback to us mistakes or the current status as we have in Malaysia. To me, the important thing is that the map helps us to get to where we want to go. When that is achieved, then we can look at how nice or accurately the visual aspect relate to the actual.

I have paper maps of Michelin and Thinknet road directory and their roads are all colour-coded according to digit numbers. Hence I decided to use different Road Types for the different number of digits. You will have to make a decision on which standard we are to follow.

If we want to get our map up quickly, I would think the priority is to get it navigable and functionally accurate foremost.

[jackcarver]

Hi All,

Just heard from yingyong that you all started the Thailand map project so I drop in to say hello. I have some save track of the road in the south where I just go on vacation few months ago. Let me get the data sort out first and I will post it for you.

สวัสดีครับ that's greetings in Thai.